I thought our team did pretty well neutralizing Drew and Scotty when we played them in the reg season...never got to see what would happen in the post-season against them...
Too bad we couldn't get all of our valid post-season goals to count...that was our downfall, among other things...Oh well, there's always next year. Maybe Ron will pick me and I'll just cruise along to another easy Cup Victory...
On a side-note I'd like to cast my vote to do the next Haverhill Cup in early September if possible.
I know a lot of people usually have stuff going on in August and of course Sept is generally cooler anyway so that is a better time of year...Could we possibly do Labor Day? If not, then any Saturday in Sept?
We might have a Haverhill cup in September. Word is there was some collusion that went all the way to the top. Information was withheld from owners and rules were not followed prior to Saturday.
Which goal are you referring to Brendon? Only controversy I'm aware of during the playoffs for your team is the one off the post. I saw it clearly, as did others who were there.
The post wasn't the argument. It went over the line after it ricocheted back into you and you were flat on your back and managed to rake it into your body. You didn't see it cross the line because you had no angle from your back but Mike D and I were both standing on top of it when it trickled past the line. The ref called it a good goal and only after members of the opposing team said no goal did he waive it off. So we got it recalled because the opposing team didn't like it. Imagine that.
I mean, if the ref was in the same place as us and saw the whole thing and called it no goal because that was his opinion, I could respect that even if I disagreed with it.
But to have a goal called back because the other team doesn't think so when the ref doesn't have a good view is bogus. The original call was a good goal. We would need indisputable video replay evidence to overturn the original call! (and we even had video from different angles, too, so that's not entirely far-fetched)...
Commish: Next Haverhill Cup we should review the officiating process and make sure the original call stands unless we have video proof to overturn. No more waffling under the pressure of opposing team players. That's too biased.
The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter what I think or you think, Dave, or anyone on your team or my team. It's the ref's job to make the call.
He made the call, and then members of your team convinced him to overturn the call despite he not actually seeing it well enough to overturn it.
So the problem here is that the ref was swayed by your team. And that fact is not disputable. Ask Brett what call Ron originally made - he was standing right next to him when i asked him about it. Your team influence the call in the opposite favor. That's just "wow", IMO.
Just to be clear: I am not blaming Ron for that. To be fair, we never really talked about it before, as far as lobbying for calls one way or the other. We generally just let the refs call whatever they see on the ice and just all agree to abide by his decision. I thought it was supposed to merit an unsportsmanlike call if there was excessive lobbying. But that is also up to the ref to decide.
I just think that, going forward, we should be clear about lobbying for calls. If you want to challenge a ref's on-ice call, then use a challenge as a team (like a coach would) and the ref can either go to a video replay (if it is available) for review it or else he can ask other people from teams that are not playing what they saw and then make up his mind if he wants to change the call.
But I don't think it's legit to just argue with the ref to overturn a call when you're clearly biased.
First off, I saw it. I am SURE. Iggy also saw it with a great view -- a player who was NOT on our team -- and WITH CONFIDENCE said no goal. Johnny said he saw it as well. If your argument is that the REF should call a goal that he DID NOT SEE GO IN, and stick with his guns when NEUTRAL players with a good view say with confidence that it did not go in, that's absurd. That is a lack of understanding of doing what is right instead of blatantly sticking with an unsure original thought. That's not pulling your donkey out of a pit because it's the Sabbath.
Yeah, Jesus reference. I'm old-school.
Your argument, if I'm reading your words correctly, is that the ref DID NOT SEE IT GO IN, but called it a goal on.....gut instinct? And he should stick with that no matter what. Because that makes sense. Don't correct it to the right call, stick with an incorrect call because you said it first. I respect Ron's willingness to turn around a call he is NOT SURE OF.
You say you saw it go in. You are also the player who took a two-handed tomahawk at my chest (as your teammate Dimaio described it), and actually argued that you didn't hit me. You told ME, the guy who GOT HIT WITH YOUR FULL SWING, that you didn't hit me. That what I felt was an illusion. Your concept of reality, and blatant desire to argue absurd unrealities, scares me.
We don't have video review. Neither team will typically be very objective. However, sideline people saying that they had a BETTER VIEW than the ref, who says he didn't see it, should be counted as equivalent of video review when the ref is not sure.
Don't taint what was a FANTASTIC series between our teams. Pretty sure you guys won that game anyways. All of our games were absurdly close, well-fought, and highly memorable, and you should be proud to have been a part of it. Disputing ticky-tack things like this ruins what was otherwise a stellar series.
Fact: the original call on the ice was a goal by the Ref.
Fact: Ref changed his call due to the popular opinion of the peanut gallery.
We should probably look into this. We have a ref for a reason. What counts? What the ref says or what everyone else says?
That being said, that call is not the reason why we lost. Nick's team beat us. We had our opportunities and didn't take advantage. Congrats to Nick to making the Final and Congrats to Ron's team to winning the Cup!
Well said Billy. I believe Mike D was in the same school of thought.
Dave I already addressed your issues when I said that it doesn't matter what you or I think and I already said that we haven't talked about this before so going to Iggy or Johnny was not protocol at the time because there WAS NO PROTOCOL for it.
It's not a taint, either. It was a good series. I just want to get things straight for the next time.
I would say what the ref says counts UNLESS he is not sure. Which he admitted he was not sure. If you are not sure, and sideline people ARE sure, that's a factor to consider. Not the argument of the players, the argument of the spectators, when the ref IS NOT SURE.
I also think that Nick already clearly explained that when you get hurt on the ice, it's your own fault for "hurting yourself" so I'm afraid your own teammate is against you on that one dave ;-)
Ron never said he wasn't sure. He made the call from his angle, and then was convinced to change it. You'd have to ask him how sure he was initially - I don't know.
But when an NHL ref is overturned, it is either from another official (of which we do not have) or from a replay angle. Otherwise the calls stands. It's part of the sport, and has long been argued over many years of NFL and other sports where the "purity of the game" is called into question.
Human referee decisions are supposed to be a factor in games, which is why we have refs and not just using replays to make 100% of the calls in all major sports.
Ok, thanks Griff. Glad you cleared that up for us. Iggy is the unofficial second ref, then?
Go find your chair.
We need a clear definition of how this works for initial calls vs overturned calls before the next Cup, of which I'm sure I won't be invited to anyway...
Billy, the third fact that is not mentioned in your post is:
Ref admitted he was not sure.
Not sure why that is being ignored. Ref was not sure. If Ref is sure, fine. His call wins. He was not. That changes all of the other conditions. If nobody on the sidelines was saying it wasn't a goal, this is an entirely different discussion. I agree that my opinion and frendon's whatever-he-has doesn't matter.
Ref's matters.....until he is not sure. If he's not sure, and there's no STRONG, UNITED, NEUTRAL ARGUMENT, stick with your call. But in that situation, strong neutral argument saying with DEFINITE CONFIDENCE, basically counts as video review for when the ref is not sure.
I think 1 thing is clear. Jared was right, ron ruined the day and is the worst ref ever. (Reggie is a close second). He's a man of the people and that's a problem. Always doubting his gut feeling just so Zack wouldn't freak out and so Jared would stop saying mean things to him.
He hasnt realized that Zack will always freak out and jared will always find something to complain about. Like how a ball isn't covered when it's between the goalies pads or how a ball that's trapped between a goalies stick on top of a defensemans stick and pressed against the goalies pad is considered up for grabs.
And one more thing ron, you don't decide when your done with the HC, it decides when it's done with you. Just ask Griff, he knows
I am not arguing whether it was a goal or not. I have no idea if it went in. However, it's clear we need a better system on rulings. Maybe we need 2 refs? I think the frustrating part is that the original call by the Ref was overturned.
Bad calls are a part of sports. You have to overcome them. We didn't. We lost.
I agree a system should be established for when the ref wants a second opinion. I agree it would be frustrating to have a goal called for you and then overturned. To be completely honest I was shocked people thought it was a goal in the first place.
I just think, since no system was in place, it's absurd to say, as Frendon so eloquently put it, "Too bad we couldn't get all of our valid post-season goals to count...that was our downfall, among other things". It more than implies in his condescending way that he DEFINITELY scored, it wasn't allowed, and it caused his team to lose. The reality is nobody is going to agree between the two teams, and even the ref wasn't sure. Let it go, establish a rule for next year.
I would think a much stronger argument could be made on our goal we scored one second after Ron blew the whistle to call a penalty on your team. It was a bad whistle blow since we still had the ball, but you could make a good argument that the goal shouldn't have counted. I was surprised that was allowed to stand. Not upset about it, obviously, but I could see that being called back.
Ron would've been in position to make the call if your goalie wasn't slamming his head into people's knees to purposely cause confusion. Plus play should've been ruled dead anyway since Brett was shedding equipment before you guys scored. Nuff said
However I do think the one thing we can agree on is that was an amazing series. I'd love to get that matchup again at some point, that was a blast. Finally got a defensive struggle, battle of the goalies. Two out of three games ending in a shootout, all games decided by one goal. Amazing.
I can't speak for Iggy, but on the non-goal from Brendon, although I saw the ball hit the post and not go in I did not talk to Ron about it. In other words, even though I disagreed with a goal call, I had no influence on Ron.
Secondly, Brett was very clearly down on the play and seemed to be hurt pretty badly so the play should have been blown dead.
And, as memory serves, that was the first game of the series so the goal had no bearing on the outcome. Brendon is just upset because it's HIS goal that was not counted.
Not exactly. I was more upset that the ruling was flipped. Costing us a goal that, in my mind, would have shifted the momentum and strategy is a moot point now.
We didn't have an explanation of how refs handle that situation, so it was not clear WHY it was overturned. I didn't see a video replay. I didn't get to see the ref interview everyone there and it was unanimous.
I do remember Ron asking Dave if it was a goal and Dave shook his head. It was at that point that he overturned it.
So I'm more concerned about the process going forward. You can't change history.
Maybe I'll petition the commish to let me ref next tournament and not play at all. That way there will be a ref with no stake in any team that is playing. And you all know that I won't be swayed by the lobbying. I'll call unsportsmanlike penalties if I hear it.
I hear the commish is just crazy enough to actually make that happen, potentially...think about THAT!
He asked me RIGHT AFTER HE ASKED IGGY. He pointed to Iggy and asked him, THEN pointed to me and asked me. If it was a goal I would have said so, I don't want to win that way. However, he asked IGGY FIRST.
I'm done with this argument. Great game all around, and Ron's team deserved their Finals victory for sure. All around fun.
The rule has always been it's the refs call whether right or wrong. I get that we want to get all the calls right especially on goals, But it's always been the ref makes the call.
It's also why the ref can give out penalties to players who ridicule their calls and constantly complain. It rarely happens because we keep ourselves in check pretty good, but it's happened.
Ron's team was a lock to win it this year. He had a power house of a team.
I didn't take my pads off till I heard some one yell it's in.
How's the knee Griff? Goalies helmets can do a ton of damage to the leg if slammed into by a flying knee kick. Hope your doing well.
On that play I'd say Ron called it fine. The problem is that when someone gets hurt, everyone's reaction is to stop playing, unless it's frendon, like when Jeremy rolled his ankle everyone stopped.
The system will never be perfect because we have 4 different refs for the tourney who all have different interpretations of the rules. 1 ref could solve it, but we tried that (reggie) and it didn't work. I don't know who said it already, but bad calls and poor commissionership are a part of the HC and are sometimes what makes the HC so fun to win and so maddening to lose.
Was thinking next year, if everyone pitched in 5 bucks, we could pay for the winners drinks at the 9s or something. Then we could really kill Ron for his reffing deficiencies because free beer is on the line.
Brett, it was JB who said I was the worst ref ever, not Jared. Unless Jared was back stabbing me after the fact (sore loser), but JB was pretty vocal and direct, because he said it right to my face a couple times. LOL I loved it!
On that goal, this was why I made the change of the call...
I was checking on Brett so first off, I did not see the final play (goal or no goal). I made the call that the play was not stopped because you guys were on the offensive rush.
So when guys said does the goal count, I said yes sure, because the play was not dead while you guys rushed the ball up court with Brett down and out.
Now when I heard that some were saying the ball actually did not do in, I asked for help. Iggy was emphatic that was no goal and he looked in position to have a good vantage point. Then I asked Dave, he immediately said no, it didn't go in. If he wasn't sure, I know he would of said, I'm not sure.
So there you go, I had absolutely no hesitation taking the word of two of our brothers.
Now I'm not insinuating others were not truthful, I'm just thinking maybe they didn't get a good view and thought it crossed the goal line but it didn't.
I was in the perfect spot right to the side and a little in front of the goal... it was without a doubt "NO GOAL"... but on the other hand right before the shot a bird flew off with a bag of Doritos and that really distracted me so I may not have been looking... I found Griff's chair but can't for the life of me find that bag of Doritos!!
Hahaha. I stand by it Ron. You are the king of the Haverhill cup. But your the jester of refing. The funny thing is that I thought that you handled that play well. My highlight of the day was iggy and gabe sitting next to each other on the bench watching tennis and iggy eating gabes pringles.
Mike Ward actually won MVP in a shocking upset. Only the players who showed up for beer after can have their votes counted. Precedent has been set, no more redrafts allowed for Haverhill cup. Although it appears if a player is unable to play you do have the option to replace with Bobcat if he's wearing untied work boots.
HAHAHA!!! Brett you are right i am the 2nd worst ref, I told Ron the minute he put that whistle on, he wouldn't hear the end of it. Brendon your "goal" did not go in.
I had the best view of it since I was standing directly over Dave. You guys in the peanut gallery didn't have a top-down view that I did. You would never have seen it over the line because Dave's arm was in the way of your view as he raked it into his body. You won't convince me that I didn't see what I saw, sorry. I believe you that you THINK it wasn't a goal, but I KNOW it was. Spilt milk, though...
Brendon... he raked it into his body with his left arm, it was wide open for us to see. The only way you would have had a better view was if you were lying on top of him (could be a possibility) and looking right at it. Don't you wear sunglasses during the games to solidify the Lezbian Biker garb?? Probably made everything look a bit darker out there... just a thought. PS- Nooooooooo Goalllllllllll
65 comments:
Congrats to Ron's team. I vote Drew as the MVP, he was consistently fantastic. He shouldn't be allowed to play next year.
And Brett didn't want to let him play in the cup... Tsk, tsk.
Drew played awesome and would be my vote too. Who knew he had such a good wrist shot?
I thought our team did pretty well neutralizing Drew and Scotty when we played them in the reg season...never got to see what would happen in the post-season against them...
Too bad we couldn't get all of our valid post-season goals to count...that was our downfall, among other things...Oh well, there's always next year. Maybe Ron will pick me and I'll just cruise along to another easy Cup Victory...
On a side-note I'd like to cast my vote to do the next Haverhill Cup in early September if possible.
I know a lot of people usually have stuff going on in August and of course Sept is generally cooler anyway so that is a better time of year...Could we possibly do Labor Day? If not, then any Saturday in Sept?
Drew gets my MVP as well.
Do I even get a vote? Or is it an exclusive club like the BBWAA?
Exclusive clubs sound racist, if you ask me.
Brendon, your shot hit the post; it did not go in.
That's not the one I was talking about...
We might have a Haverhill cup in September. Word is there was some collusion that went all the way to the top. Information was withheld from owners and rules were not followed prior to Saturday.
I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I demand a recount.
Which goal are you referring to Brendon? Only controversy I'm aware of during the playoffs for your team is the one off the post. I saw it clearly, as did others who were there.
Problem with a September cup is everybody is rusty after the summer
The post wasn't the argument. It went over the line after it ricocheted back into you and you were flat on your back and managed to rake it into your body. You didn't see it cross the line because you had no angle from your back but Mike D and I were both standing on top of it when it trickled past the line. The ref called it a good goal and only after members of the opposing team said no goal did he waive it off. So we got it recalled because the opposing team didn't like it. Imagine that.
I mean, if the ref was in the same place as us and saw the whole thing and called it no goal because that was his opinion, I could respect that even if I disagreed with it.
But to have a goal called back because the other team doesn't think so when the ref doesn't have a good view is bogus. The original call was a good goal. We would need indisputable video replay evidence to overturn the original call! (and we even had video from different angles, too, so that's not entirely far-fetched)...
Commish: Next Haverhill Cup we should review the officiating process and make sure the original call stands unless we have video proof to overturn. No more waffling under the pressure of opposing team players. That's too biased.
Wow. Just..........wow.
What's wow? You disagree? You had the worst angle out of everyone there...
The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter what I think or you think, Dave, or anyone on your team or my team. It's the ref's job to make the call.
He made the call, and then members of your team convinced him to overturn the call despite he not actually seeing it well enough to overturn it.
So the problem here is that the ref was swayed by your team. And that fact is not disputable. Ask Brett what call Ron originally made - he was standing right next to him when i asked him about it. Your team influence the call in the opposite favor. That's just "wow", IMO.
Just to be clear: I am not blaming Ron for that. To be fair, we never really talked about it before, as far as lobbying for calls one way or the other. We generally just let the refs call whatever they see on the ice and just all agree to abide by his decision. I thought it was supposed to merit an unsportsmanlike call if there was excessive lobbying. But that is also up to the ref to decide.
I just think that, going forward, we should be clear about lobbying for calls. If you want to challenge a ref's on-ice call, then use a challenge as a team (like a coach would) and the ref can either go to a video replay (if it is available) for review it or else he can ask other people from teams that are not playing what they saw and then make up his mind if he wants to change the call.
But I don't think it's legit to just argue with the ref to overturn a call when you're clearly biased.
First off, I saw it. I am SURE. Iggy also saw it with a great view -- a player who was NOT on our team -- and WITH CONFIDENCE said no goal. Johnny said he saw it as well. If your argument is that the REF should call a goal that he DID NOT SEE GO IN, and stick with his guns when NEUTRAL players with a good view say with confidence that it did not go in, that's absurd. That is a lack of understanding of doing what is right instead of blatantly sticking with an unsure original thought. That's not pulling your donkey out of a pit because it's the Sabbath.
Yeah, Jesus reference. I'm old-school.
Your argument, if I'm reading your words correctly, is that the ref DID NOT SEE IT GO IN, but called it a goal on.....gut instinct? And he should stick with that no matter what. Because that makes sense. Don't correct it to the right call, stick with an incorrect call because you said it first. I respect Ron's willingness to turn around a call he is NOT SURE OF.
You say you saw it go in. You are also the player who took a two-handed tomahawk at my chest (as your teammate Dimaio described it), and actually argued that you didn't hit me. You told ME, the guy who GOT HIT WITH YOUR FULL SWING, that you didn't hit me. That what I felt was an illusion. Your concept of reality, and blatant desire to argue absurd unrealities, scares me.
We don't have video review. Neither team will typically be very objective. However, sideline people saying that they had a BETTER VIEW than the ref, who says he didn't see it, should be counted as equivalent of video review when the ref is not sure.
Don't taint what was a FANTASTIC series between our teams. Pretty sure you guys won that game anyways. All of our games were absurdly close, well-fought, and highly memorable, and you should be proud to have been a part of it. Disputing ticky-tack things like this ruins what was otherwise a stellar series.
I have to agree with Frendon here.
Fact: the original call on the ice was a goal by the Ref.
Fact: Ref changed his call due to the popular opinion of the peanut gallery.
We should probably look into this. We have a ref for a reason. What counts? What the ref says or what everyone else says?
That being said, that call is not the reason why we lost. Nick's team beat us. We had our opportunities and didn't take advantage. Congrats to Nick to making the Final and Congrats to Ron's team to winning the Cup!
Well said Billy. I believe Mike D was in the same school of thought.
Dave I already addressed your issues when I said that it doesn't matter what you or I think and I already said that we haven't talked about this before so going to Iggy or Johnny was not protocol at the time because there WAS NO PROTOCOL for it.
It's not a taint, either. It was a good series. I just want to get things straight for the next time.
I would say what the ref says counts UNLESS he is not sure. Which he admitted he was not sure. If you are not sure, and sideline people ARE sure, that's a factor to consider. Not the argument of the players, the argument of the spectators, when the ref IS NOT SURE.
I also think that Nick already clearly explained that when you get hurt on the ice, it's your own fault for "hurting yourself" so I'm afraid your own teammate is against you on that one dave ;-)
Ron never said he wasn't sure. He made the call from his angle, and then was convinced to change it. You'd have to ask him how sure he was initially - I don't know.
But when an NHL ref is overturned, it is either from another official (of which we do not have) or from a replay angle. Otherwise the calls stands. It's part of the sport, and has long been argued over many years of NFL and other sports where the "purity of the game" is called into question.
Human referee decisions are supposed to be a factor in games, which is why we have refs and not just using replays to make 100% of the calls in all major sports.
Iggy, aka Wiggy, said it wasn't a goal. Case closed
Ok, thanks Griff. Glad you cleared that up for us. Iggy is the unofficial second ref, then?
Go find your chair.
We need a clear definition of how this works for initial calls vs overturned calls before the next Cup, of which I'm sure I won't be invited to anyway...
Hallelujah
Billy, the third fact that is not mentioned in your post is:
Ref admitted he was not sure.
Not sure why that is being ignored. Ref was not sure. If Ref is sure, fine. His call wins. He was not. That changes all of the other conditions. If nobody on the sidelines was saying it wasn't a goal, this is an entirely different discussion. I agree that my opinion and frendon's whatever-he-has doesn't matter.
Ref's matters.....until he is not sure. If he's not sure, and there's no STRONG, UNITED, NEUTRAL ARGUMENT, stick with your call. But in that situation, strong neutral argument saying with DEFINITE CONFIDENCE, basically counts as video review for when the ref is not sure.
I think 1 thing is clear. Jared was right, ron ruined the day and is the worst ref ever. (Reggie is a close second). He's a man of the people and that's a problem. Always doubting his gut feeling just so Zack wouldn't freak out and so Jared would stop saying mean things to him.
He hasnt realized that Zack will always freak out and jared will always find something to complain about. Like how a ball isn't covered when it's between the goalies pads or how a ball that's trapped between a goalies stick on top of a defensemans stick and pressed against the goalies pad is considered up for grabs.
And one more thing ron, you don't decide when your done with the HC, it decides when it's done with you. Just ask Griff, he knows
I am not arguing whether it was a goal or not. I have no idea if it went in. However, it's clear we need a better system on rulings. Maybe we need 2 refs? I think the frustrating part is that the original call by the Ref was overturned.
Bad calls are a part of sports. You have to overcome them. We didn't. We lost.
I agree a system should be established for when the ref wants a second opinion. I agree it would be frustrating to have a goal called for you and then overturned. To be completely honest I was shocked people thought it was a goal in the first place.
I just think, since no system was in place, it's absurd to say, as Frendon so eloquently put it, "Too bad we couldn't get all of our valid post-season goals to count...that was our downfall, among other things". It more than implies in his condescending way that he DEFINITELY scored, it wasn't allowed, and it caused his team to lose. The reality is nobody is going to agree between the two teams, and even the ref wasn't sure. Let it go, establish a rule for next year.
I would think a much stronger argument could be made on our goal we scored one second after Ron blew the whistle to call a penalty on your team. It was a bad whistle blow since we still had the ball, but you could make a good argument that the goal shouldn't have counted. I was surprised that was allowed to stand. Not upset about it, obviously, but I could see that being called back.
Ron would've been in position to make the call if your goalie wasn't slamming his head into people's knees to purposely cause confusion. Plus play should've been ruled dead anyway since Brett was shedding equipment before you guys scored. Nuff said
However I do think the one thing we can agree on is that was an amazing series. I'd love to get that matchup again at some point, that was a blast. Finally got a defensive struggle, battle of the goalies. Two out of three games ending in a shootout, all games decided by one goal. Amazing.
I can't speak for Iggy, but on the non-goal from Brendon, although I saw the ball hit the post and not go in I did not talk to Ron about it. In other words, even though I disagreed with a goal call, I had no influence on Ron.
Secondly, Brett was very clearly down on the play and seemed to be hurt pretty badly so the play should have been blown dead.
And, as memory serves, that was the first game of the series so the goal had no bearing on the outcome. Brendon is just upset because it's HIS goal that was not counted.
Agree on that being a great goaltending battle to watch!
Not exactly. I was more upset that the ruling was flipped. Costing us a goal that, in my mind, would have shifted the momentum and strategy is a moot point now.
We didn't have an explanation of how refs handle that situation, so it was not clear WHY it was overturned. I didn't see a video replay. I didn't get to see the ref interview everyone there and it was unanimous.
I do remember Ron asking Dave if it was a goal and Dave shook his head. It was at that point that he overturned it.
So I'm more concerned about the process going forward. You can't change history.
Maybe I'll petition the commish to let me ref next tournament and not play at all. That way there will be a ref with no stake in any team that is playing. And you all know that I won't be swayed by the lobbying. I'll call unsportsmanlike penalties if I hear it.
I hear the commish is just crazy enough to actually make that happen, potentially...think about THAT!
He asked me RIGHT AFTER HE ASKED IGGY. He pointed to Iggy and asked him, THEN pointed to me and asked me. If it was a goal I would have said so, I don't want to win that way. However, he asked IGGY FIRST.
I'm done with this argument. Great game all around, and Ron's team deserved their Finals victory for sure. All around fun.
We playing this weekend?
I can referee this weekend. Need to prove my reffing skills so the commish will allow it for the next Cup.
The rule has always been it's the refs call whether right or wrong. I get that we want to get all the calls right especially on goals, But it's always been the ref makes the call.
It's also why the ref can give out penalties to players who ridicule their calls and constantly complain. It rarely happens because we keep ourselves in check pretty good, but it's happened.
Ron's team was a lock to win it this year. He had a power house of a team.
I have a GoPro...maybe I can ref wearing that next time...Just sayin...
I didn't take my pads off till I heard some one yell it's in.
How's the knee Griff? Goalies helmets can do a ton of damage to the leg if slammed into by a flying knee kick. Hope your doing well.
On that play I'd say Ron called it fine. The problem is that when someone gets hurt, everyone's reaction is to stop playing, unless it's frendon, like when Jeremy rolled his ankle everyone stopped.
The system will never be perfect because we have 4 different refs for the tourney who all have different interpretations of the rules. 1 ref could solve it, but we tried that (reggie) and it didn't work. I don't know who said it already, but bad calls and poor commissionership are a part of the HC and are sometimes what makes the HC so fun to win and so maddening to lose.
What's funny is when someone gets hurt, everyone stops playing except Frendon.
Except for when Frendon gets hurt, then nobody stops playing...
Knees ok... I guess. I also want to know the concussion protocol... I just hope Brett doesn't shotgun his chest now! Poor kid
Ha Billy!!!
Was thinking next year, if everyone pitched in 5 bucks, we could pay for the winners drinks at the 9s or something. Then we could really kill Ron for his reffing deficiencies because free beer is on the line.
Just a thought.
"Go find your chair." That's the funniest thing frendon has ever said. I laughed out loud.
Late to the discussion again... but oh well
Brett, it was JB who said I was the worst ref ever, not Jared. Unless Jared was back stabbing me after the fact (sore loser), but JB was pretty vocal and direct, because he said it right to my face a couple times. LOL I loved it!
On that goal, this was why I made the change of the call...
I was checking on Brett so first off, I did not see the final play (goal or no goal). I made the call that the play was not stopped because you guys were on the offensive rush.
So when guys said does the goal count, I said yes sure, because the play was not dead while you guys rushed the ball up court with Brett down and out.
Now when I heard that some were saying the ball actually did not do in, I asked for help. Iggy was emphatic that was no goal and he looked in position to have a good vantage point. Then I asked Dave, he immediately said no, it didn't go in. If he wasn't sure, I know he would of said, I'm not sure.
So there you go, I had absolutely no hesitation taking the word of two of our brothers.
Now I'm not insinuating others were not truthful, I'm just thinking maybe they didn't get a good view and thought it crossed the goal line but it didn't.
On the MVP voting, I agree Drew was a beast. I loved how he played.
And I knew 100% he would be a huge in this tourney. I think he was way underrated in the pre-draft rankings
Will we see the box scores for regular season and the playoffs?
I was in the perfect spot right to the side and a little in front of the goal... it was without a doubt "NO GOAL"... but on the other hand right before the shot a bird flew off with a bag of Doritos and that really distracted me so I may not have been looking... I found Griff's chair but can't for the life of me find that bag of Doritos!!
Pretty sure Jared said you were ruining the game when you made the call on zack.
Jared's been very quiet on this post. Too quiet.
Hahaha. I stand by it Ron. You are the king of the Haverhill cup. But your the jester of refing.
The funny thing is that I thought that you handled that play well.
My highlight of the day was iggy and gabe sitting next to each other on the bench watching tennis and iggy eating gabes pringles.
Bravo to Brett and his wife for teaching Gabr the importance of being a good sharer...
I'll post the stats this week...maybe today if I get around to it...
Mike Ward actually won MVP in a shocking upset. Only the players who showed up for beer after can have their votes counted.
Precedent has been set, no more redrafts allowed for Haverhill cup. Although it appears if a player is unable to play you do have the option to replace with Bobcat if he's wearing untied work boots.
HAHAHA!!! Brett you are right i am the 2nd worst ref, I told Ron the minute he put that whistle on, he wouldn't hear the end of it. Brendon your "goal" did not go in.
I had the best view of it since I was standing directly over Dave. You guys in the peanut gallery didn't have a top-down view that I did. You would never have seen it over the line because Dave's arm was in the way of your view as he raked it into his body. You won't convince me that I didn't see what I saw, sorry. I believe you that you THINK it wasn't a goal, but I KNOW it was. Spilt milk, though...
Brendon, we don't dispute what your eyes saw, just your interpretation of it.
Interpretations are everything...
Brendon... he raked it into his body with his left arm, it was wide open for us to see. The only way you would have had a better view was if you were lying on top of him (could be a possibility) and looking right at it. Don't you wear sunglasses during the games to solidify the Lezbian Biker garb?? Probably made everything look a bit darker out there... just a thought. PS- Nooooooooo Goalllllllllll
If only we had a drone that could have taken conclusive video...
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